Dragging a vietcong soldier [1965]

No comments?

No one wants to praise our democracy and freedom?
No one wants to say how good we are, how good capitalism is, how bad they are, how evil Ahmadinejad is?

/PEACE

Maybe because we cannot praise ourselves, capitalism, freedom and democracy when it is used in cruelty. War is an ugly thing. It should never be held in high regard.

well that’s not a tank more like an APC ( armored personnel carrier )
also WAR is Hell, simple as that. plus the Vietcong did thing much or as the same horrible things as the Americans did…

So U r excused to bring death upon earth ?

I agree with Shiranai, as deplorable as it is. The Vietcong did much worse.
War is war, it’s not all glossy and nice like in the history books. No one respects
human rights in a war, including the yanks. accept it.

At the end of the day- We’re fighting for our democracy in an apparent just and noble way. We see what happens in war, especially in this day and age. You can’t lead such a disgusting, antihumanitarian example even during war without our children seeing it. Sure, let them see Saddam being hanged on the front page of the news. Let them see pools of dead bodies flung about the place and yeah, let them see American soldiers smoking weed and blasting the way through the desert listening to the ozzfest sound track. But come on, that photo is torture, not war. That was an indavidual decision chosen by the party in question. It’s a crime.

Most Americans do not know that during the Vietnam War man women were raped by American soldiers, problem is during that time the soldiers had to high a regard for themselves and thought that they deserved to take whatever they needed. but on the flip side communism is shit as well. Communist north vietnam has also commited crimes that i hope they will pay for for in hell. What drive soldiers to do such heinous things. It is power, greed and desire. Many women during the Vietnam war were taken from their homes and treated like a piece of meat. I have heard first hand from the victims, and many of those who had to stand and watch while people they knew and cared about being ravaged and killed. I say i hope that those who commited those crimes will end up in pain and misery. so much so that when they go to hell they will feel the same pain but a thousand folds over.

keep it real kids. war is hell. war should never start. but when it does, stay away from the boys with guns. you dont deserve the opinion, you havent been there. just make sure it doesnt start. war is hell. period.

for gods sake, why cant we all just get along and evolve outta this mess. religions all believe the same kinda thing, all the different types music are still all music, clothes are just clothes, everyone wants to achieve happyness, but we seem to have a deep need to seperate ourselves from one another using all these different mediums or frequencies to do so. name, age, class, subculture, race, politics, subjective opinions, star signs, personal preference, music taste etc etc. its mad (Mutually Assured Destruction). we’re all human and last time i checked, on the same floating sphere in space.

war is primarilly about profit for defence contractors and the resource industry. why is that so hard to see? “we had to take out saddam, he was a terrible man”, yeah well, you should know, you guys put him there over the democratic state that WAS ALREADY IN EXISTANCE. and what the hell ever happened to assasination? or stealth bomber attacks? outta fashion? we coulda taken him out without goin to iraq. o but i forgot, we need to test all those new weapons somewhere and hows the ammunition industry gonna thrive if no ones firing any bullets? crap. where are all the soldiers gonna go? how else are we gona have a big enough enemy image (after communism) worthy of justifying the chipping away of personal liberties ultimately resulting in complete public (workforce) control? ANYONE READ GEORGE ORWELL’s 1984?

people dont like to relenquish their power and their percieved achievements. those in power aren’t gona let go, but we keep them there and vice versa, like two symbiotic parasites feeding on each other.

war is not about idealism, religion or patriotism/nationalism, those are just the cited excuses. its about money, control and the continued seperation of man. i really wish people would realise we dont need authoritarianism to have organised humanity. decentralisation is the way. that way power cannot currupt because less of it exists. in war, and eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

o but im a “dreamer”, i should just accept it because “thats the way it is”. great way to totally defeat and resign yourself to an apathetic nature. thanks. come up with a better idea?

hope ive made a dent in someones mind today anyways, rant over.

thanks for reading if u got this far

im from canada. bone, i agree with ya.

I totally agree Bone. (And also from Canada! represent!)

why don’t you show a photo of some of the vietkong atrocities…
i guess it doesn’t fit in with your anti-american agenda

please tell us about a famous photo of vietcong atrocities via “submit famous photo”

thanx

How can you fight for peace !

I am a truly VietCong, We never did any bad things on American detainees just because we needed them to negotiate. We regarded you as invader, fucking invader indeed and you really are. The fucking Americans always use you money, weapons to threat every nations which has a important, strategic position like Vietnam or Iraq, Iran, Syria, Cuba,North Korea, Afghanistan . American never won any war simply because there are lots of resistant forces outside waiting for revenging . Those forces will combine one day and make you-americans- pay for what you did

“I agree with Shiranai, as deplorable as it is. The Vietcong did much worse.
War is war, it’s not all glossy and nice like in the history books. No one respects
human rights in a war, including the yanks. accept it.”

ÙŒWar is war? The Vietcong did much worse? war is war? !!!!
What’s going on here? What were American soldiers doing in Vietnam? I suppose it is not their country! I suppose they were not invited there! I suppose SELF DEFENCE of the Vietcongs is a little bit different than the ACT OF AGRESSION of the united states soldiers.

I’m usually paid more than 10.000$ to kill people. But I willingly slaughter Americans for free.
You-Americans- still has an enormous blood bath that u borrowed from us. You will pay for it sooner or later
American soldiers was just merely blood thirsty animals in Vietnam war.We fought for our nation, to resist invaders. WE ARE THE GOOD SIDE OF THE WAR. WE CHOSE TO DIE MEANINGFULLY,
Did americans ever wonder why our country could carry a devastating war like that? why did we keep moving forward despite of superior firepower from the enemy? Ask yourself, Americans are blood thirsty animals

The whole thing is sad.. truly sad.. all the comments agruing one side or another.. defending any of it is sad.. this was a person.. with family, morals, beliefs.. they may not have agreed with everyone else’s.. but this was a human.. how would have you felt to see your son dragged like that?.. how would you feel to see your son dragging someone like that?.. it is heart breaking.. and even more heartbreaking years after it is over the sterotypes are still there.. and the animosity is obviously still there.. that makes me want to cry more than this heart wrenching picture. I am sorry for what ever happened during that time.. I wasn’t alive to witness it, and I certainly wouldn’t have condoned it… Vietcong.. by your replies you obviously still harbor alot of ill feelings and hurt because of the war.. and even though you openly admit you would slaughter me.. I am an american. I still apologize for any hurt you suffered at american hands.. you stereotype us, by the actions of our government.. not all americans are blood thirsty, or power hungry.. and I am also sorry you have been conditioned to think that way.

I wish everyone could get over what they were brought up and conditioned to believe and work together recognizing and respecting each other’s differences, and different beliefs, and some how forge some peace.. in the world in general.. but I know I am just a dreamer.. *sighs*

We , The soldiers of National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam, will forgive and become real friends with Americans, but you, the Americans, never sorry for our super heavy losses. U don’t even confess your fault to use chemical to destroy us. Whenever we see a kid who suffer from your chemical, we feel very furious that you even don’t take any responsibilities for those innocent kids.
what you say about this, Americans, what would you say? WE STILL WANT TO REVENGE FOR THAT. ALL OF US ARE ALWAYS READY TO FIGHT FOR JUSTICE OF THESE KIDS, EVEN THOUGH WE COULD SUFFERED MILLIONS OF LOSSES ONCE AGAIN

I can’t speak for all americans.. but I am truely sorry for all your losses.. This was all before I was even born, so I obviously can’t take a personal responsiblity for the things that have happen… And I will be honest in pleading ignorance to everything that happened.. mostly everything I know has been taught to me from completely biased sources… I do realize that.. and understand that there is more that has happened then I will ever know, or can begin to understand. But I can tell you.. there are many things done by americans during war, that I don’t agree with. Any suffering of any human.. man, woman or child breaks my heart.. especially at the hands of another human… and for what it’s worth.. coming from one american.. I empathize with your pain and anger toward us.. and I am sorry..

May God forgive America…

Countries should start respecting borders thats why they are there, America is big enough kill and drag your own people, please!!!

the arms sales during this time kept the economy at ease allowing u people to bitch about it like ur going to change anything now

American Empire!!! democracy? You are worse than Hitler!!
Do you think that this is different than what your troops is doing in Irak?

ok… first bone. not all religons are the same. i take offence that you would put my God in the same category as some religons that make their followers kill small children. secondly if war is hell why do we send or 17 year olds to hell every time someone doesn’t do what we want them too. ok now Vietcong… Im sorry about what happen to you and your people… i wasn’t even alive for the war and no one in my family fought in the war. so you need to direct your anger to the goverment in our country and yours.

Go to hell Vietcong…………………..

Ignorance only goes so far, stupid americans. Please vallidate this post by saying “f*** you” “go to hell” calling me a “faggot” ect ect. You guys sure know how to support an arguement.

Ps Chill out, your god only exists in your head anyways.

yeah americans are pretty sweet. only thing more annoying than ignorant nationalist americans are… wait?

OK - let’s have a vote…

You are being persecuted in your own country. You want to flee to another country. There are only two choices:

Democratic Republic of Vietnam

OR

United States of America.

I know where I am heading…

I think the Vietnam War was part of the World’s destiny.Victims are everywhere,of course Americans are apparently the beasts from Hell,as they attacked Vietnam.It should also be analysed the reason for their invasion…was it all mere ambition?I understand Vietcong as a patriotic soldier…but I suggest to him as well that he reflects upon the possible misteakes which had been made by his nation’s governement. As an Italian,i remember Americans came to rescue Europe and Italy from nazism and fascism…and certainly saved us from communism…

Wow, I hate to break it to you, but the ignorance here is getting out of control.

1st, anyone who says “all war is about profit for defense contractors” is not a student of history and should probably only be let out of the house with adult supervision

2nd, anyone who equates the behavior of men in combat with the morality of an entire nation, or even of those same men in peacetime has no idea what war does to people. The political and moral sides of war are as separate as night and day. Becoming desensitized to violence is a defense mechanism of most humans, and part of the human genome. Even some NAZI’s suffered from PTSD and lost loved ones. Deal with it.

3rd, anyone who wants to see a photo of torture by the VC and NVA against Americans only needs to look at the photo of John McCain being marched for miles at gunpoint with broken legs, ribs etc. Or just look at the photos of the American POWs as they were released in ‘74. Many had to be carried in stretchers to get off the plane, and the rest of those men didn’t get down to 90 pounds by being fed in compliance with the Geneva conventions. Of course we’ll never have photos of the thousands of American POWs who were simply liquidated by NV at the end of the war to simply avoid having to announce that they were captured in the first place.

4th, anyone who watched eastern Europe fall to the Soviets (and begged the US to intervene) and watched the UN fight the Korean war to stem the spread of communism has no right to bitch about the US getting involved in VietNam war under nearly identical circumstances. Weather or not the war was just, the reasoning behind it was as sound as any of a number of cold war operations that the free world commonly accepts as “justifiable”. While many people have suffered at the end of an American gun, far more (including most of you reading this) have greatly benefited from American generosity and creativity.

5th, Does anyone truly believe the crazy ramblings of a supposed product of the completely closed (until recently) Vietnamese military/government? We also need to consider the odds that someone claiming to be a 60+ year old Vietnamese man who is fluent in English AND has internet access AND is trolling photo sites AND is still this angry 40 years later are pretty small and this guy is probably some punk yanking your chain. Any American who apologized to this phantom is a complete tool and should pull the stick back out a few inches, since it is clearly hitting the brain stem. America may screw the pooch now and again, but we are still one of the most open, tolerant, and egalitarian societies on this planet. We may be loud, but we are also generous. We may sound dumb, but we still educate most of the world’s PhDs. Our actions are for the preservation of our society, and nothing else. Show me a country that does otherwise.

all religions are all the same. they all believe in some “God”, some deity, some higher power. the religions may not believe or worship in the same exact way, but every religion is worshiping the same God, only in different forms and different names. every religion has some sacred rite, some right action. their right action is what THEY believe is right; maybe not you, but THEY believe it. thats what right action is. its what they believe their right is in their religion. everyone who is part of a religion has a right action and a sacred right.

its interesting how just a photo can open minds to have discussions like this. im planning on being a photojournalist once i graduate college… i hope my photos open future minds one day. major credit to the photographer. thank you for opening peoples minds to discussion.

americans are money grabbers and love war,george bush is a perfect example,love their power,but the majority are ignorant and dont understand other countries and beliefs,

Bobsoice, please sight your references for your statements. I’d like to know what factual study has concluded that all Americans are money grabbers and war mongers, and in addition shows that we are power-hungry ignoramuses. What is the probability of error in this study? Please share your knowledge. Do you come from a country where money is despised and people have to be forced into public office because they hate power? Has your country never been to war? Has your country ever voted in the UN for an action that sent American boys into harms way? Did your country help the Yugoslavians? Does your country have a government that considers all other people in the world before taking care of its own? Can you tell me why some Americans display a gold star in their windows? Can you tell me why 70% of America want to get our troops out if Iraq if they are warmongers?
Can you even answer one of these questions correctly? Can you tell the difference between reality and the bizarre little make-believe world you are living in? Do you know why Americans stand up the the 7th inning of baseball? Do you know why you are so angry?

hey JJJ, we gave all the food for our soldiers, we endured hunger to win the war, to protect it from Americans. Our civilians didn’t have full meal, so you- the americans- need to show courtesy by showing us your appreciation that we didn’t let all US POW died.
Do u know why your fucking country is powerful? Because Americans were, are, and will be cowards , U stood out of the WWI and sold weapons for both sides. When the war nearly ended, the fucking sinister cowards jumped in to share victory. U did the same in WWII, but the Japanese were wise to kicked your ass at Pearl Harbor . And U were cowards in North Africa, testing your weapons by support Montgomery, but the Desert Fox could still slap u when you stepped in Maroc . You waited until the Red Army eliminated almost Nazis elite troops in Moscow, especially Stalingrad. Then U jumped in Europe to share victory by your dumb operation overlord or d day. Also, I feel sorry for the French that had a fucking friend who saved their country after it was too late . By the way, Do u know where were the free french force in d day??? they were forced by americans to stay in africa and cannot liberated their home. What a shame for French !!!!
And u know what , JJJ ?? Hitler preferred to be surrounded by Americans than to be beaten by the Red Army, but americans troops were cowards, they were afraid of losses, they moved slowly, stupidly with superior weapons and lots of forces. I think the Wehrmacht were much more respectful than american troops. Luckily, the KGB stopped that pilot between Nazis and USA just in time.
One more obvious thing, the war in Iraq, us juvenile are dumb enough to be lured in a trap so called us army. After they came back from there, they thanked their God that they weren’t killed. They were truly scared when talking about Iraq. And I felt contempt for them when talked to them
By the way, I’m not 60 + , I’m real, mobile, and unknow. U just cant suppose me correctly.

I’m an American, but I didn’t want this war or any war. I’m not a war monger. I hate it when people lump an entire group of people into one group. No matter which side of a war you are on there are going to be atrocities committed by your side. There are sick , twisted people out there and when given the chance they will do sick twisted things. I’m not defending those people. I’m defending the ones who were there and DIDN’T do these things. My mother’s cousin was drafted, he didn’t have a choice about going to Vietnam. He committed no war crimes, he was only doing what he had to do, and he died there.

I feel sorry for the victims of all wars on every side. Unfortunately the United States isn’t run by people like me or my mother’s cousin, it’s run by a bunch of corporate pigs who only think of money and how they can make more of it. It happened in Vietnam and it’s happening now in Iraq.

Excuse me, I meant to say I hate it when people lump entire nations of people into one group. Obviously a group of people is one group.

That is a dead person, a dead person, its not one thing to kill, but to tie and drag there dead body!!!! Truly Sick!

I think the truly horrific situations we humans have found ourselves in are completely a result of our inability to question fundamental assumptions about political systems.

I think it high time somebody tells the truth like it is instead of all the bull shit we have listened to for years. First, the US did not lose the Vietnam War. Our troops pulled out in 72-73.. Siagon fell on April 30, 1975. The only Americans left in Vietnam at that time was the Ambassador and various other Diplomats and Staff along with a handful of Marines still there for guard duty. The US had turned over all of the fighting to the South Vietnamese after we had resupplied them military hardware to aid them in their fight. The South Vietnamese did not want to fight to really save their country. Second, had the US citizens backed their military commanders up instead of letting the “hippies” run rampant across the country doing all of their protesting again we could have ended the entire war by the end of 68. Third, had the US military been allowed to make the decisions necessary instead of letting the politicians make the decisions the US commanders on the ground our military could have won the whole war by 68. Forth, had we had a president with balls, like Harry Truman the NVA and VC would not have stood a chance. And how you ask exactly could we have achieved this task? Simple, we should have told Ho Chi Min that he had 14 days do get all of his troops out of South Vietnam and back across the DMZ or we were going to drop a tactical nuclear bomb right down his chimney. And, if after 14 days we still had evidence that Northern troops were still in the South we should have dropped that sucker on Hanoi like we said we were going to do and then made it clear he had 10 more days to get the NVA out of the south or the next one will level the entire city of Hanoi. After an additional 10 days if there were still NVA in the South or in the DMZ then we should have dropped several tactical nuclear bombs on the DMZ and on the rest of Hanoi and let the Communist know that if we had to drop any more, there would be no North Vietnam left to live in and stuck to our word. I can guarantee you this, you would never have seen NVA troops run back to the North and as far away as possible from the DMZ. The end result would have been, pack your bags boys the war is over, South Vietnam would still exhist today and nobody would have ever tested us again.

I see a lot of comments here, but not one actually of what the picture is really showing. You can look at it TWO WAYS:

1. The picture is a body of a SOUTH VIETNAMESE man killed by Vietcong/North Vietnamese troops and the American APC is only dragging it to a grave nearby because of serious diseases that can be acquired handling or being near a dead body.

2. OR YOU ARE A commenter like Vietcong (name shows your insolence) here that says its a photo of a living civilian boy dragged to death by American troops.

No one including the Americans are 100% innocent in everything, but one thing that I know for sure is that the Vietnamese, North Koreans, Iranians, Palestinians, and other third world countries don’t give a damn about their crimes…they are 100% perfect in their eyes all the time no matter what. The rest of us are to blame for their needless acts and garbage words. Like a misbehaving child, these people need beat by their parents sometimes and sometimes you are going to get hurt.

There are 4 words for those who incure justice through their own single minds…YOU WILL PAY TOO…

I’ve seen this photo before and it always moves me. It reminds me of Hector being dragged by Achilles.

The truth is that american war history is much more full of cowardice than heroism. Vets who saw how Sovjet Red Army attacked in ww2 against Wehrmacht hardly disagreed if we say that US soft Army would have been smashed by furious red army of 1944/45. Red army was so powerfull and their attacks were brutal and horrible.

except that hector was a nobel hero, not a communist dog.. seriously… you extreme liberals make me sick to my stomach…..

same stars and stripes today

GREAT PIC ,TIME OF WAR,TAKE NO PRISONERS

War is Hell. There is no other way to describe it. I do not praise or condone what these soldiers did. i will say that when you see a fellow soldier or Marine die next to you all rules go out the door.
Eye for an Eye. Tooth for a Tooth.

Just remember….that people wouldn’t even HAVE the internet ior the freedom to post messages, etc., et.c.,if it wasn’t for the US Armed Forces; and many people, all over the world, wouldn’t have what they have if it wasn’t for the British and Americans, Australians and several other related tribes.. We ARE the policemen of the world… it is our birthright whether you l ike it or not. So get use to it. WAR IS HELL and unfortunately it happens.

and the Devil was kicked out of heaven to the vicinity of the earth having great anger because he knew his time was short.

I agree with Bone and is it what we fighting for fredom…. God !!!!

They say a picture is worth a thousand words but i think it’s worth a lot more according to everyones comments. You people look at this picture and you generalize everything…the American devil…the Vietnamese victim…

War happens. So many of you sit there and cry about what you’d do to the bastard who did this or that but you don’t realize that that’s how wars start in the first place.

Yes this is a sad picture, and yes it pisses me off to see that the people dragging the body are American but the fact that they’re American doesn’t mean that every American approved of the war, or of torture…keep in mind that there were thousands of people in America protesting this war, they didn’t want this to happen either.

And one last thing, you all need to stop referring to yourselves as we because I can guarantee that more than half of you didn’t even exist when this picture was taken and none of you were involved in this.

in war, the humanity is saved for those on your side. soldiers do not regard the feelings of others, and when they do, their enemies see them as weak. so, although i do not praise this act of desecration, i understand why they acted in that way. when fighting, i believe people return to the mentality of kill or be killed and when you have accomplished such a task and have not only defeated the opponent but have demolished them, animal nature is to show off what you have done. in a normal confrontation, do you think these people would have acted in such a manner? of course not. they are acting on adrenaline and testosterone fueled instinct. that demonstration is not caused by democracy, capitalism or any other thing found here in america, it was caused by illogical reasoning combined with the mind of a savage.

No wonder so many people want to immigrate to our wonderfull nations: Russia, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Sudan

so if war should never be held in high regard then what do those badges given to war veterans mean? NOTHING, exactly.

It’s all smokes and mirrors especially in the U.S

the picture and was taken in Tan Bihn, Vietnam february 1966

“A Vietcong body is dragged behind an armored personnel carrier following the fierce night attack by two battalions of hard-core Vietcong against the defensive perimeter of elements of the U.S. 1st Infantry Division 2/24. The Americans who are conducting Operation “Mastiff” about 35 miles northwest of Saigon killed 89 Vietcong by body count in the attack.”

the photographer was Kyoichi Sawada (Japanese photographer who died in 1970 in Cambodia)

more information about this photo

“United Press International photographer Kyoichi Sawada won top prize for news photography at the 10th annual World Press Photo Exhibition here. This is the photo, called “Dusty Death” that took the prize. It shows the body of a Viet Cong soldier, killed in a night fight with U.S. and Australian Forces, being dragged behind an armored carrier near Tan Binh, South Vietnam. (February 24, 1966)”

It never ceases to amaze me how, whenever there’s an outlet at which they may spend their two-cents, everyone becomes and armchair (pardon me, desktop) politician.

It is more amazing, still, how (notwithstanding the previous “two-cents” reference) the uneducated rely on overused clichés to speak for them. (see Shiranai’s use of “War is hell,” for example).

Two things need to be understood, here, when having this kind of discussion.
I was fortunate to have learned them in kindergarten. I wish (in terms of these two points) people were lucky enough to have parents who were as good teachers as mine.

1: You CAN’T force someone to agree with you. You may curse, scream, fight, bicker, berate, insult, and disrespect for the rest of your life. That doesn’t mean that your opinion has to, or will be accepted. Grow up.

2: You are ENTITLED to think, feel, believe, wish, wonder, ponder, explore, entertain, and pursue ANY idea you have. It is ALSO your right to do so.

MY opinion is this.
War is played out.
Further war only magnifies the fact that we are merely cave people with technology.

I also believe that there are sick, disturbed, war-loving individuals (you know, the ones who foster and nourish that “American as Apple Pie-Stars and Stripes Forever-God Bless the USA” attitude) who would love NOTHING more than continued war with any other country that doesn’t support our brand of “democracy.”

They, too, are entitled to their beliefs. God bless them.

All are born sinners. You will naturally seek advantage for yourself first . All these things will happen.

Hey …american governments have always thought war was the way…the way to help other countries to have access to democracy, freedom….
Why don´t you take a look at your own selves??? You send your young people to far countries to fight for these countries freedom.. … when the whole world is condemning what your president is now doing in Irak… most af the rest of the world (except for your allies) realises this is not about freedom ….your wars were never about this…
I understand not all the american people agree with the their government´s foreign policy:…. But… please… Let other countries grow.. . don´t bring us your progress, don´t come and steal our natural resources, don´t contaminate us…
Just try to handle your own new tragedy now… and bring your boys back home !!!!

It’s the old problme, right? Nazis killing jews: “any information available!”
GIs dragging a VC making not a single P.O.W with a tank: Sorry, no further information acc. to that!” . . . There are civil rights not only Germany ignored 60 years ago but the US of A as well in WW-II(30s to 40s), Korea (50ies), Vietnam (60s to 70s), Nicaragua (70s/80s), Afganistan, Iraq ……Wyhy doesn’t anybody have the balls to wrie THAT as a subline?

Vietcong won the war being a small nation against a large country they had big hearts and courage. The picture shows cowardly acts performed by us soldiers dragging that man he was probly still alive. Ive spoken to some US soldiers returned from iraq who were ordered by there superiers to kill all civilians and all innocent people who get in there way. Cities in iraq have millions of people there body count must be in the millions since the start of the murder massacre . Once again cowardly acts. Its been 5 years and the war hasnt ended there in the small nation of iraq.

The war for Democracy is insane, we’re back to the medieval times. The war for Democracy is modern time crusades “Democracy is superior, kneel before us or die” something like that. I’m not saying democracy is wrong or that dictatorship is better on the contrary, dictatorship IS horrible, although I find it quite funny to see the US and the UK, Denmark as well, “crusading” to Iraq and Afghanistan, probably Iran in a near future, god forbid it, to “save” the people from there goverments. Great job western world, though you removed Saddam and Taliban, people are still dying.

Nothing will justify this, and I mean NOTHING.

Sierra Lima Oscar Philip Echo. that enemy got what he deserved; killed Americans, he got what he deserved for killing our boys.

my view?
1. war is terrible but once in it, the only option is to win at all costs
2. jump ahead. Iraq. Abu jail house joke. Who really gives a shit that those prisoners were humiliated? Not me. Pity we wasted time and didn’t just off them cleanly.
3. Afghanistan…the sand should have been turned to glass.
4. Life outside of America has little value as shown by the world’s behavior. You reduce the value with your behavior.
5. We unfortunately cry over a dog stuck in a storm drain…an example of how ridiculous we have become in our extreme valuation of each individual.
6. I hope the VC at the end of the rope had a nice ride.
7. Of course the notion of spreading democracy is insane. A well-eduated population is necessary for it’s success. Hence, it is doomed to fail in these 3rd world cesspools…and will ultimately fail here at home in the US.
8. I have worked in Africa, Australia, NZ, India, and both Eastern and Western Europe…much of my life has been spent abroad. My cold cynical views are the result of personal experiences throughout the world. I have met many of you in these journeys. Thank you for helping to form my views.
Thor

more anti-American propaganda.

K basically, the Germans once again believed themselves the superior race in this war, them and the two other central powers, the Ottoman and Austria-Hungary. The Allies moved in on them and took them out, they deserved it, Geramny thinks it is the “fatherland” when its just an overconfident country that needs to be taken over by new government. The Germans were not treated badly unless they did bad things to our soldiers, they were not abused, they were shot at, killed, but not ever tortured. SO do not feel sympathy for Germany or the other central powers.

I think the thing most people don’t take into account is the human element. After all is said and done, and no matter whose boundries or flag you fall under, we’re all still human. And that means that, inevitably, when we get together with other humans, we’ll create and destroy, whether technologically or otherwise.
And while I’m stereotyping the human race here, I think it’s a little unfair to stereotype an entire nation.
The United States of America: Those war-mongering cavemen go out of their way to force their ideals on everyone else, disrupting their happy lives and causing them pain!
I’ll debunk this quickly. First off, as an American, I feel that spreading democracy is a noble goal. It’s brought great prosperity to many nations, and I’ll also admit has brought ruin to many more. And I also can’t condone the actions of my government or my people sometimes. But if it means overthrowing an OBVIOUSLY evil and corrupt regime, I believe that, in the name of the people of that country, using our superior technology and military might should be a viable option, if it means increasing their standard of living.
And hell, if a nation thrives under communism, I say let them do things their way. We shouldn’t go around killing the Allendes of the world — who, for those who don’t know, was the only democratically elected socialist leader and not a bad one, although not a great one either…
So let’s try to be a little more open-minded here. This is supposed to be a reasonable forum for discussion, not a cyber bar fight.

Damn thats fucked up

fighting for peace is like humping for virginity